<p><blockquote type="cite">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: "nettime's secret court staffer" <<a href="mailto:nettime@kein.org">nettime@kein.org</a>><br>Date: Aug 11, 2013 2:58 AM<br>Subject: <nettime> Interview with Lavabit's Ladar Levison<br>
To: <<a href="mailto:nettime-l@mx.kein.org">nettime-l@mx.kein.org</a>><br><br><br>
<br>
On an phone interview with CNET and Jesse Binnall, Levison's<br>
Virginia-based attorney, about the decision to shutter Lavabit, Levison<br>
spoke about the connection between Lavabit and the Patriot Act, how he<br>
thinks the laws regarding privacy ought to change, and how the American<br>
government is failing to uphold the U.S. Constitution.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57597954-83/lavabit-chief-predicts-long-fight-with-feds-q-a/" target="_blank">http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57597954-83/lavabit-chief-predicts-long-fight-with-feds-q-a/</a><br>
<br>
__What's the key issue here? Why did you shut down Lavabit?<br>
<br>
Levison: For me it wasn't about protecting a single user, but protecting<br>
the privacy of all my users, coupled with the fact that I wasn't able to<br>
discuss it publicly.<br>
<br>
I believe that people have the right to know what their government is<br>
doing. I had an issue with me doing what they wanted me to do without<br>
them disclosing it.<br>
<br>
We've had a couple of dozen court orders served to us over the past 10<br>
years, but they've never crossed the line...<br>
<br>
__Until now?<br>
<br>
Levison: I can neither confirm nor deny "until now." Are you familiar<br>
with the case of Aaron Swartz, familiar with the accusations of<br>
prosecutorial misconduct? There may be parallels between that case and this.<br>
<br>
__If you could write the legislation covering privacy and electronic<br>
communication, what would it say?<br>
<br>
Levison: One of the things that would be nice to come out of this would<br>
be that the court shouldn't be able to make binding decisions that are<br>
secret. If there's going to be legislation from the bench, so to speak,<br>
it needs to be open to review from the American public.<br>
<br>
Just the idea of secret laws, so to speak, bothers me tremendously. That<br>
should almost be a constitutional change.<br>
<br>
We've shown that some of our most important freedoms can't be trusted to<br>
Congress, they need to be placed in the Constitution. Going beyond that,<br>
as an Internet service provider, there needs to be a more clear<br>
definition of our protections.<br>
<br>
Right now, as a third-party litigation, we effectively have no rights.<br>
There's no legal framework that we can fight with or against anything<br>
that is unjust. They're abusing their secrecy to hide their surveillance<br>
methods.<br>
<br>
I think that there's a lot more that will come out, and that needs to<br>
come out. I obviously can't tell you what was happening and what I know,<br>
and I was uncomfortable with it. I'd rather shut down my service and my<br>
primary source of income than be complicit in crimes against the<br>
American people.<br>
<br>
__In the current situation, are there any bright red lines that you<br>
wouldn't cross?<br>
<br>
Levison: It's unfortunate that even our own lawmakers don't have a good<br>
understanding of what's going on.<br>
<br>
Philosophically, I put myself in a position that I was comfortable<br>
turning over the information that I had. I built Lavabit in a reaction<br>
to the original Patriot Act. I didn't want to be in a position to turn<br>
[user data] over without judicial review.<br>
<br>
Where the government would hypothetically cross the line is to violate<br>
the privacy of all of my users. This is not about protecting a single<br>
person or persons, it's about protecting all my users. What level of<br>
access to this nation does the government have?<br>
<br>
__How did the Patriot Act influence your e-mail service?<br>
<br>
It played a big role in how I designed the custom platform. All I needed<br>
when somebody registers was a name and a password. I didn't need a real<br>
name, address, social security number, credit card number... Why should<br>
I collect that info if I didn't need it? [That philosophy] also governed<br>
what kind of information I logged.<br>
<br>
Speaking philosophically, I think people who hold other people's private<br>
information and money have an obligation to be more open to the public.<br>
That principle of openness has become a key issue. It's definitely<br>
become an issue as it relates to some of the recent coverage in the media.<br>
<br>
The current administration is not being transparent and open about what<br>
it is they're doing, even to members of Congress.<br>
<br>
__How have Lavabit's users reacted?<br>
<br>
Levison: It's overwhelmingly positive. Some of them are understandably<br>
frustrated that I had to shut down without notice. I lost my one and<br>
only e-mail account over the past 10 years, as well. I feel my decision<br>
was the lesser of two evils.<br>
<br>
__What happens to your customer's e-mails and data?<br>
<br>
Levison: I'm looking into setting up a site where users can download<br>
their data and set up a forwarding [e-mail] address, but that may take a<br>
week or two to set up. That's all I can do until I feel confident that I<br>
can resume the service without having to compromise its integrity.<br>
<br>
I will make it clear that I don't plan to use any encryption for that<br>
site. [People] should only use it if they feel comfortable with the<br>
information being intercepted. And yes, I do plan to have that<br>
disclaimer on the site.<br>
<br>
Unfortunately, what's become clear is that there's no protections in our<br>
current body of law to keep the government from compelling us to provide<br>
the information necessary to decrypt those communications in secret.<br>
<br>
I'm still looking at seeing if that's even logistically feasible --<br>
there's half a billion messages [sent in the 10 years Lavabit operated].<br>
By shutting down the service, I will be losing the infrastructure that I<br>
used to support all those people.<br>
<br>
There's stuff that I can't share with my own lawyer. This is going to be<br>
a long fight.<br>
<br>
__What made Lavabit successful?<br>
<br>
Levison: Lavabit at the time of the shutdown had 410,000 users, with<br>
40,000 weekly log-ins, 200,000 e-mails sent a day -- 1.4 million e-mails<br>
a week.<br>
<br>
We were in a very narrow category of what I like to call medium-sized<br>
providers. Once you get over the 50,000 to 100,000 user threshold,<br>
e-mail becomes a very difficult problem of scale. It's why you see so<br>
many e-mail providers come and go.<br>
<br>
We managed to break through that barrier by building a custom platform<br>
to handle it. It's similar in architecture to some of the big guys<br>
[Google, Yahoo, and Microsoft, which combined provide Web mail to more<br>
than 1 billion people].<br>
<br>
__How did Lavabit get started?<br>
<br>
Levison: I've been a geek my entire life. I was with a group of college<br>
friends of mine, that was how an e-mail service by geeks, for geeks,<br>
came about. [It was called] Nerdshack, with an emphasis on security and<br>
privacy. It had POP and IMAP access. For a long time we were the only<br>
free POP service.<br>
<br>
__How do you identify yourself politically?<br>
<br>
Levison: I'm a conservative Republican. I believe in small government<br>
and keeping our government out of our business. But I'm from California,<br>
and if there's one thing we love in California, it's being able to speak<br>
our mind. I love God and guns, too. Texans are big on freedom. I'm<br>
probably a blend of [California and Texas] at this point.<br>
<br>
<br>
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</blockquote></p>