[smc-discuss] [bug #28059] shutdown എന്നതിനു്അടച്ചു്പൂട്ടുകഎന്നതിനു്പകരംനിര്‍ത്തിവയ്ക്കുകഎന്നാക്കുക

Fri Jan 14 23:51:24 PST 2011

In spite of the POT files, localisation is way more difficult than creating
a new theme. An end user can make a new theme (font, colour etc.) easily,
but can't easily change the text in the menus.

The facility to localise the text-content in the menus (not just the fonts
and the colours) to anything a user want will be *a useful additional
feature*, allowing further localisation to different dialects, slangs, etc.

This is just my opinion. Adding such a feature will empower even a single
user to do the localisation work, which is quite necessary for small
languages. For a huge language like Malayalam with several crores of
speakers, this might not seem essential for purposes other than supporting
further regional variations in the language.

@Saji, These issues were not in your previous mail.

2011/1/15 Saji Nediyanchath <saji89 at gmail.com>

> @Jayadevan, Could you please take time to read my previous reply in full.
> We use POT files, which are exactly a template file of translations.
> Translations does not come hard coded(atleast in most cases). Then the POT
> files are converted in to binary MO files, so that it can distributed as a
> localised package.
> Yes common people are non-technical, that is why the other people here were
> exactly asking us to consider them and to use common Malayalam terms as we
> regularly use. We try to think from their place when deciding on the
> localised terms. Also there would never be exactly one translation with the
> multitude or slangs/local usages/and even the effect of English and other
> languages on our mother tongue. So, wouldn't it be better to go with a term
> that seems understandable to majority common people.
> When someone feels that a better translation exists for a particular term
> then it can be discussed in this Mailing list and changes can be made(even
> added) to the glossary so that translators can always refer to it and know
> what terms(chosen from the multitude of possible options) we use in
> translations.
> At the end of the day what we have to remember is that localisation is for
> common users, and not for techies as you told.
>
> Did you check out the SMC glossary? What exactly did you mean by maketplace
> in the reply(എനിക്ക് മനസില്ലയില്ലാ).
>
>
> 2011/1/15 Jayadevan Raja <jayadevanraja at gmail.com>
>
>> Most de-jure standards are made either after extensive research backed by
>> large funding, or accepting a de-facto standard. That is, out of competing
>> 'standards', one of them become established in the market, and then they are
>> accepted as a real standard.
>>
>> Regarding research in the words in Malayalam, there is no way to make a
>> formal proof system to decide what is and what is not a standard. So,
>> instead of a centralised committee doing a localisation, won't it be better
>> if the marketplace can come up with words for standardisation.
>>
>> A skinned UI with a multitude of skins freely available increases the
>> users' choice. The better skin becomes the de-facto standard, which can then
>> be later be made a de-jure standard. Now, most users are too non-technical
>> that the standardisation is done by a few tech-savvy people like us. So,
>> wouldn't a decentralised approach, with more choice for the users (that is,
>> a skinnable UI with no word hard-coded), be more democratic?
>>
>> 2011/1/15 Saji Nediyanchath <saji89 at gmail.com>
>>
>> @Jayadevan, I feel that the idea of having different localisations like
>>> different skins spoils the very idea of a centralised localisation for
>>> Malayalam. From what I know we now have a common interface(with same
>>> localisation) for different linux distributions as we're carrying out the
>>> translations of the UI at the source itself, wherever possible, i.e, at KDE
>>> or GNOME. In that way users won't find it difficult to start using new
>>> OS(maybe a more user-friendly one).
>>> The whole thing is about standardisation. I feel that this concept like
>>> skinning if done will become a step backward from standardisation. With
>>> standardisation only we can get more acceptance. And when it comes to more
>>> common things such as helping other users such a standardised UI will help,
>>> whereas a skinned one will create confusions.
>>> Like *XML* files in web technology for UI localisation in regular
>>> applications, we use *POT*(Portable Object Template). Its not in
>>> hard-coded format. For every localised program there exists a *pot* file
>>> in which the corresponding translated UI strings are stored. the user just
>>> has to download it and use it. And for common users it can be packaged with
>>> the software itself so that the user will be getting the localised UI from
>>> day one. If a certain user fancies to have another string in lieu of the
>>> standard one he/she can always make a custom copy of the UI's POT file and
>>> make it to match his needs. Its like skinning itself. But I believe a
>>> standard interface is going to do more in the long-term.
>>> Whatever I have told above is just my opinion based one whatever I learnt
>>> about Localisation and what I now believe. :)
>>>
>>> SMC maintains a list of common translations(Glossary) at-
>>> http://wiki.smc.org.in/Glossary
>>>
>>> 2011/1/15 Jayadevan Raja <jayadevanraja at gmail.com>
>>>
>>>>  Will it be good to have a Skinnable User Interface (like skins or
>>>> themes or something), so that users can choose what words to use, rather
>>>> than the words like shut-down etcetera being hard-coded? In that case, KDE,
>>>> Gnome etcetera can come with a default skin, but with the click of a button,
>>>> he can choose another skin which he prefers. So, we the user can change the
>>>> words അടച്ചു്-പൂട്ടുക or നിറുത്തി വയ്ക്കുക or നിറുത്തി വക്കുക or ഷട്-ഡൌണ്‍
>>>> or shut-down or shutdown or whatever, as easily as he can change his desktop
>>>> wallpaper now?
>>>>
>>>> Won't this be an ultimate user-empowerment? Won't that also simplify the
>>>> UI design? (I am new to desktop development. My industrial background is in
>>>> web-application development, where we use this technique - the words are in
>>>> XML files. I find that enhancing the maintainability of the software, though
>>>> I don't know if this technique of not hard-coding the words will be easy in
>>>> Desktop environments).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2011/1/14 കെവി & സിജി <kevinsiji at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>>> 2011/1/14 Jayadevan Raja <jayadevanraja at gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>> @kevinsiji at gmail.com: That comment was a bit too harsh - you should
>>>>>> have read what I have said before saying so.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  അതു് നിങ്ങളെ വേദനിപ്പിച്ചുവെങ്കില്‍ ക്ഷമിയ്ക്കണം. അങ്ങിനെ
>>>>> ഉദ്ദേശിച്ചല്ല എഴുതിയതു്.
>>>>>
>>>>> കെവി.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Swathanthra Malayalam Computing discuss Mailing List
>>>>> Project: https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/smc
>>>>> Web: http://smc.org.in | IRC : #smc-project @ freenode
>>>>> discuss at lists.smc.org.in
>>>>> http://lists.smc.org.in/listinfo.cgi/discuss-smc.org.in
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Thanking You,
>>>> Jayadevan V
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Swathanthra Malayalam Computing discuss Mailing List
>>>> Project: https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/smc
>>>> Web: http://smc.org.in | IRC : #smc-project @ freenode
>>>> discuss at lists.smc.org.in
>>>> http://lists.smc.org.in/listinfo.cgi/discuss-smc.org.in
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> With regards,
>>> * **
>>> *
>>>   (*Opensource Enthusiast*)
>>>  * **Google Profile*-http://www.google.com/profiles/saji89
>>> * ** **Blog*-http://saji89.wordpress.com
>>>   *Launchpad ID*-https://launchpad.net/~saji89<https://launchpad.net/%7Esaji89>
>>>   *LinkedIn*-http://in.linkedin.com/in/saji89
>>>  * Twitter*-saji89 <http://twitter.com/saji89>
>>> *  **Wikipedia*-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saji89
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Swathanthra Malayalam Computing discuss Mailing List
>>> Project: https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/smc
>>> Web: http://smc.org.in | IRC : #smc-project @ freenode
>>> discuss at lists.smc.org.in
>>> http://lists.smc.org.in/listinfo.cgi/discuss-smc.org.in
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thanking You,
>> Jayadevan V
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Swathanthra Malayalam Computing discuss Mailing List
>> Project: https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/smc
>> Web: http://smc.org.in | IRC : #smc-project @ freenode
>> discuss at lists.smc.org.in
>> http://lists.smc.org.in/listinfo.cgi/discuss-smc.org.in
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> With regards,
> * **
> *
>   (*Opensource Enthusiast*)
>  * **Google Profile*-http://www.google.com/profiles/saji89
> * ** **Blog*-http://saji89.wordpress.com
>   *Launchpad ID*-https://launchpad.net/~saji89<https://launchpad.net/%7Esaji89>
>   *LinkedIn*-http://in.linkedin.com/in/saji89
>  * Twitter*-saji89 <http://twitter.com/saji89>
> *  **Wikipedia*-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saji89
>
> _______________________________________________
> Swathanthra Malayalam Computing discuss Mailing List
> Project: https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/smc
> Web: http://smc.org.in | IRC : #smc-project @ freenode
> discuss at lists.smc.org.in
> http://lists.smc.org.in/listinfo.cgi/discuss-smc.org.in
>
>
>

-- 
Thanking You,
Jayadevan V
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